Alfred Radtke oral history transcript

              INTERVIEW WITH ALFRED RADTKE

BY DOROTHE NORTON, NOVEMBER 12, 2002

ORTONVILLE, MINNESOTA

MS. NORTON: Please tell me your birthplace and date.

MR. RADTKE: I was born in Ortonville, Minnesota on January 8, 1945.

MS. NORTON: What were your parents’ names?

MR. RADTKE: My parents were Alfred and Sadie Radtke.

MS. NORTON: What were their jobs and education?

MR. RADKE: They had high school educations. Their occupations were farming in Big

Stone County, Minnesota.

MS. NORTON: Where did you spend your early years?

MR. RADTKE: The family farm was fifteen miles east of Ortonville, right along

Highway 12. That’s where I spent all of my early years until I graduated from high

school.

MS. NORTON: How did you spend your early years?

MR. RADTKE: I assisted on the family farm and worked for other neighboring farmers.

MS. NORTON: Did you have any hobbies, books or events that influenced you the

most?

MR. RADTKE: I always knew that I wanted to be in the outdoors because of being a

farm boy and everything. My parents did not want me to be a farmer so I had to find

something that was outside, and close to being a farmer. That’s when I became interested

in the outdoors. I also had some family friends who got me going in hunting and trapping

and such. That had quite an influence on me.

MS. NORTON: So you did do some hunting and fishing as a youth?

MR. RADTKE: Oh yes.

MS. NORTON: What high school did you go to and when did you graduate?

MR. RADTKE: I went to Appleton High School, which is east of Ortonville about

twenty-five miles. That school is now closed, but that’s where I graduated from in 1963.

MS. NORTON: What university did you attend?

MR. RADTKE: I started at the University of Minnesota—Morris, which is kind of a

local college here, which is part of the main University of Minnesota. I went there for

two years. Then, I went down to the main campus in St. Paul/Minneapolis and

completed the rest of my education.

MS. NORTON: What degree did you get?

MR. RADTKE: I got a degree in Wildlife Management in 1968.

MS. NORTON: Did you go on for other degrees?

MR. RADTKE: No I didn’t.

MS. NORTON: What aspect of your formal education equipped you for the future?

MR. RADTKE: I was able to work part-time for the Department of Conservation of

Minnesota while I was in college. At the university of course we spent some time at

summer school up at Itasca State Park. That was a part of my education. I think that

was most of it.

MS. NORTON: Did you have any mentors, or courses that especially stuck with you?

MR. RADTKE: I can’t say that I did. I had one professor at Morris, Dr. Ellen Ordway.

I worked for her as a lab assistant. Of course, Dr. Marshall was still at the University

when I was going down there. He impressed me, obviously. I suppose those two had

biggest influence on me from an education standpoint.

MS. NORTON: Were there ever any adverse influences?

MR. RADTKE: No.

MS. NORTON: Good. Did you have any military service?

MR. RADTKE: No.

MS. NORTON: When where and how did you meet your spouse?

MR. RADTKE: She was a local girl who was raised only eight miles from where I was.

She was a farm girl. I knew her family, but I didn’t really know her. I got to know her a

little bit in 4-H, just to know who she was. Actually, the first time I really met her and

spent any time with her to find out who she was, was on a church hayride. Our two

churches got together for a young peoples hayride and I met her on there when we were

both sixteen.

MS. NORTON: When and where did you marry?

MR. RADTKE: We married in Odessa, which is the hometown of Big Stone NWR. Of

course, now we’ve ended up only four miles from there in our retirement. We’ve kind of

made the cycle and come back to where we started from. We got married in 1966. We

were in college. She had one year of college left, and I supposedly had one year to go.

She was going to get done before I was, so went through and started teaching so we could

make a living so we could stay together. I finished my education like that.

MS. NORTON: Do you have any children?

MR. RADTKE: We have two boys. Ryan is the oldest. He works up at Grandview

Lodge in Nisswa. The younger one is Blaine. He is a Social Worker in Worthington.

MS. NORTON: That’s great. Now, we’ll get on with your career. Why did you want

to work for the FWS?

MR. RADTKE: It was a little bit by accident, because when I got out of school in 1968,

Vietnam was hot and heavy. Most of the people were going over there. I was scheduled

to go over there myself. Brad Ehlers who is over at Sherburne Refuge now, was a friend

of mine in college. We were both working for DNR on a temporary basis. He knew he

was going to go to Vietnam and I was pretty sure that I was. I went down and signed up

on the Navy waiting list; to go in to the Navy later in the summer after graduation. Brad

and I were having coffee over at the St. Paul campus and he said, “You should go over and

get an interview with the Fish and Wildlife Service before you go to Vietnam. That way,

your name is in the file and when you get back at least you’ll have that started for you.”

That sounded like a good idea. So I went over there. I got interviewed by Lynn

Greenwalt and John Carlson. This was over on Lake Street. I had no idea what was going

on. I just went in there and they came in and started talking to me. I had no idea who

they were. When I got done with my interview they said, “Are you interested in going to

work?” Well, like a dummy, I said I wasn’t sure, and that I was going to be going into the

military service. I hemmed and hawed. I hadn’t taken my physical yet. They said, “You

never know what’s going to happen on those physicals. If you want to go to work,

we’ve got jobs in Wisconsin and South Dakota.” I got home and thought about it a little

more. I called them and said that if I didn’t have to go to work until the first of July I’d

consider taking a job. I asked them what was available. John Carlson said that there was

an opening at Lacreek NWR in South Dakota. I had no idea where Lacreek was. I knew

where South Dakota was, but finally I said I would give it a try. I told them that if I had

to go in the military, I’d have to go later on. The funny thing about it was that I did flunk

my physical. I had high blood pressure, which I’ve still got. I never did end up going in

to the military. I did go to Lacreek and worked for thirty years with FWS. It was kind of

a neat way of getting in.

MS. NORTON: So what was your first position then?

MR. RADTKE: I was the Assistant Manager at Lacreek NWR, under John Ellis. I

didn’t know John at the time either. This was in 1968.

MS. NORTON: Where did you go from Lacreek?

MR. RADTKE: I had the good fortune of …there was a fellow who came over from

Lake Andes by the name of Ralph Fries. He was the manager there at Lake Andes. He

came over pheasant hunting at Lacreek. I got to know him a little bit. He asked if I was

interested in going into the wetland management business. I told him I wasn’t sure. I had

always heard that it wasn’t a very good place to go. He told me that he had a job coming

open and that he might be calling me. It wasn’t too much later that John had an opening

over there and he called me up. He asked if I was interested in going to Lake Andes. I

had been at Lacreek for a little over two years and I told him, “Sure, I’ll give it a try.” I

went over and worked for Ralph. That was the best move I ever made in my life. I got in

the wetland business. I enjoyed it. There were a great many challenges. Some were not

as fun as others, but it was a great area. I made my two moves and got a promotion and

got into the wetland business in the fall of 1970. I stayed there for a couple of years.

MS. NORTON: What were the pay and benefits like?

MR. RADTKE: For me they were pretty good. I was just getting out of college and I

didn’t have a dime to my name. So whatever I got was good. I remember my first check

at Lacreek, after they took my house rent out, which was $15 or $20 a month, was

$125.00 for a two week pay check. My wife was teaching too, so we thought we were

on easy street.

MS. NORTON: So you did have promotion opportunities?

MR. RADTKE: Yes, I did. I went in as a GS-5. I got my “7” at Lacreek. Then I went

to Lake Andes and got a “9”. I was at Lake Andes for a couple of years. I learned the

wetland business and really enjoyed it. One advantage of the federal service over the

state; I had some state offers when I got out of college, but I was not really interested in

staying around in Minnesota for the rest of my life; I had some opportunities and there

was a job that came up at Malhuer Refuge in Oregon. I just put in for it on the ‘green

sheet’ without knowing a whole lot about it. I felt like I didn’t have much of a chance to

get it because Malhuer was kind of a famous place. Here, I end up getting that job and I

had real second thoughts about going. “Oh boy, do I really want to go out west?” There

were two people who influenced me to go. One was my wife, she said that we should

just go and if I didn’t like it we could always come back. The other person was Forest

Carpenter. Forest got on the phone from Region 3. I was out at Lake Andes and he

talked to me. He was from that area of Oregon. He knew Malhuer; in fact, he had

worked there early in his career if I remember right. He got on the phone and of course,

Forest had a way of influencing people. He told me I’d be missing the chance of a lifetime

if I didn’t take that job. He said, “I highly recommend that you go”. So after I got done

talking to him I decided that I would go. I was there for five years. It was just a

wonderful place. Out west is a real experience too, for a farm boy who had never been

out of Minnesota all that often. It was a move that we never regretted. In fact, we did

regret a little bit that we didn’t stay longer. It was a great place to raise your kids and

there were lots of things to learn out there. That’s how we ended up out in Region 1.

MS. NORTON: Did you come back to Region 3 after that?

MR. RADTKE: Yes, in 1977 when our boys started getting a little older and we thought

we should get them back near their grandparents and stuff so they’d have a chance to get

to know them. I started looking for possibilities back here in 1977. In fact, I got

desperate. I applied for a job in the regional office of Region 3, which I didn’t think I’d

ever do. Of course, I got it. Then I called back and talked to some of my relatives in

Minneapolis about housing and that kind of stuff. That scared the heck out of me so I

called up and said that I had decided I didn’t want to take that job. I thought, “Well,

that’s taken care of my career in Region 3!” It wasn’t very much long, maybe two

months later when I got a call from Dick Tolsman who was in the Area Office, which was

just getting started. Dick had just moved in to St. Paul from Benson Wetland office. He

asked if I was interested in wetlands business back in Minnesota. I was elated, and said

that “Yes, I would take that job!” I had applied for some in North and South Dakota too

and thought that I might get one of those. In fact, I had one of those for a couple of

hours. I was the number two man and when the number one man decided to take it, I lost

it again. That was a whirlwind scenario. I did end up back at Benson in 1977. I thought

I’d stay there for five, six or seven years and then move on. Well, that turned out to be

twenty years. I ended up retiring from the Benson/Morris office. I had regrets about that

at all.

MS. NORTON: What was your title and grade when you retired?

MR. RADTKE: I was a GS-13 Wetland Manager.

MS. NORTON: Did you socialize with people that you worked with?

MR. RADTKE: Yeah I did, especially in the early years. When I was in Refuges at

Lacreek and Lake Andes that’s the people we primarily associated with. We spent hours,

days and nights paying cards and taking the kids out fishing. We really enjoyed the refuge

life. It was fantastic. The wetland life normally isn’t quite that way because you don’t

live together on a location like you do on a refuge; you tend to scatter out more. That has

its negative aspects but it also has its positives too. You get involved in the community.

Our boys were getting older and were in high school, and they were involved in sports

and such. I had the hobby farm nearby too. I spent a lot of hours out there too, working

on that while I was at Benson/Morris.

MS. NORTON: How did your career affect your family?

MR. RADTKE: In the early years it was our life. Out there on refuges that was our

central location. Especially in Oregon we were very isolated. We were out in the middle

of nowhere. We did a lot of family things together. And like I said, with the other

employees and their children and families. They got to know a great deal about the

environment; which they wouldn’t have if they hadn’t been in that area. They learned to

love the outdoors and all of the things that go with it. It had a pretty big influence on

them, especially our older boy. He, I think would have liked to go in to the business but

just didn’t have the opportunity. My wife loved it. She’s a big bird watcher and she was

in her glory out there. We really enjoyed it.

MS. NORTON: What kind of training did you receive for your jobs?

MR. RADTKE: It was the usual experience by doing, which takes place on refuges. You

usually end up working under one of the maintenance men. He takes you out and shows

you how to do things. You learn by trial and error. There are lots of good people out

there to help you out. There were really great people that I ran in to on refuges. I got a

lot of on the job type training in day-to-day things come up. You get involved in them

and that’s the best way to learn; by doing.

MS. NORTON: What hours did you work?

MR. RAKTKE: We worked whatever the job took, especially in the early years on

refuges. The way I remember it, we didn’t really have hours in those days. You just did

things. A lot of times you were out in the evenings running water levels or control

burning or all kinds of stuff. You were always on call because you lived out there and

things happen. You get phone calls. For the first ten years of my career, I was basically

on call 24 hours a day being on these stations. I can’t say that I really enjoyed that

because there was a lot of stuff going on out there. But we survived those. That was one

nice thing about the wetland program; there was less concern about being called off

somewhere. You were at a different location, not right on the refuge. Normally, if there

was a problem and they didn’t find you, they’d called the Sheriff or Game Warden or

someone like that. You’d find out about it the next day normally.

MS. NORTON: What tools and instruments did you use in your jobs?

MR. RADTKE: Just the normal equipment that went along with refuge management.

There was anything from Caterpillars to shovels. I kind of missed the computer stuff. I

came in later than that, a little bit. I didn’t have a great deal of interest in computers. I

always had people on our staff that were into that, so I kind of let them go into that part

of it. Just the normal things that are used on refuges and wetland districts. Anything

from heavy equipment to the rest of the stuff. I enjoyed the control burning and activities

of that type. I like to do things with my hands.

MS. NORTON: Did you witness any new FWS inventions or innovations during your

career?

MR. RAKTKE: Oh yeah, things really changed drastically in those thirty years. I

remember the old time keeping system that we had when I started out. And compare it to

what it was when we ended. It was a whole different world. There were a lot of things.

Then there was the training that we got for controlled burning and law enforcement and

such. When I started, they gave you a badge and a gun and said, “Go do it.” That all

changed dramatically. In controlled burning it used to be just take a book of matches. We

didn’t know anything about what we were doing. It was just trial and error and

experience. That’s totally changed now too. There were a lot of good things about the

old system, but obviously, you have to keep up with the new things in life too.

MS. NORTON: Did you work with animals?

MR. RAKTKE: We did, to a degree. There was banding. At Lake Andes we did a lot of

work with Eagles and such. This was back before the FWS did a lot of …now they take

the animals to St. Paul to the university if they get injured. Out at Lake Andes we kind of

had our own hospital out there. People would bring them in and we’d try and doctor

them as best we could. We’d get some information from one of the Vets down there at

one of the South Dakota universities. We’d ask what to do, and they’d tell us how to

treat a chicken or a duck and we’d try and use it on eagles. People would bring in animals

that they had found so you’d have to deal with them there. Banding was probably the

most animal work though. I did get involved when I was at Lacreek with the Buffalo

round up down at Fort Nibrarra. That was very interesting. I learned a lot of that. Out

in Oregon I got down and got involved with the Order of the Antelope at Hart Mountain.

There were all kinds of interesting experiences. There were big horned sheep and things

of that nature.

MS. NORTON: How did you feel towards the animals?

MR. RADTKE: I never was one that personified animals, I guess. I was more of the

view that ‘An animal is an animal’. I treat it with respect which probably a good way to

go in the wildlife business because you see a lot of animals come and go. I treated them

with respect and I had a lot of feelings towards trying to preserve their habitat, and

protecting them. I guess that’s kind of the way my feelings were towards the animals.

MS. NORTON: What support did you receive, locally regionally and federally?

MR. RAKTKE: Locally, one refuges that’s kind of a tough scenario. I got involved in

real tough situations like at Malheur where there was a lot anti-government sentiment;

especially because of the grazing program out there that we were chopping away at. And

of course with the wetland program we got bombarded by antis, the drainers that we were

up against. The law enforcement aspects were tough; to go out on these cases. We kind

of got beat on, and that had an effect on my life, no question about that. I think it kind of

gets to be like a policeman’s mentality. You become a little paranoid. But we did have a

lot of support internally, within our own outfit, and externally too. We had a lot of

people who did support us. I don’t they often spoke to us and told us that they

supported us. They kind of kept their heads down. But internally, I’d have to say that

we had very good support from our supervisors and the people up the ladder in the

regional offices. We didn’t always agree with them. We complained about this and that,

but basically we had some really good people. It was especially those people who had

gone up the ladder from the field, and knew what was going on out there. We had a lot of

respect for them. They gave us some excellent support.

MS. NORTON: How do you think the FWS was perceived by people outside of the

agency?

MR. RADTKE: I just mentioned, there was a lot of anti sentiment especially in these

rural communities out in the Midwest here. They don’t have a lot of time for authority in

many cases, especially when it comes to conservation work. Everybody seems to think

that they know as much about conservation work as you do. You can go into any pool

hall and talk to anybody and they’re a ‘biologist’, so. That is a problem that was hard to

deal with. I think that the FWS, maybe among the professional people and such had a

pretty good reputation. You have to earn your respect in this business because people

think they know a lot about it and they are willing to challenge you. And of course

politics enter into it, which even down at the local level, you get involved in a lot of

politics. You get beat on by people who are going to tell you what to do. That’s when

it’s really important to have the backing of the regional and central offices.

MS. NORTON: What projects were you involved in?

MR. RADTKE: My primary project, after I got out of Refuges and moved into the

wetlands business was buying land. That was the big thing. I kind of looked at my career

in the wetlands program as being part of the acquisition phase. We were buying as much

as we could buy. I always thought that the people after me will have the opportunity to

manage and build it and make it better. I felt my job was to get as much land as possible

while it was still available. That was my primary goal and I put most of my efforts into

that. Even with my staff, I did the acquisition part and I allowed them to take care of the

management and carry the ball on that end. I felt that the acquisition was the most

important thing for me to do.

MS. NORTON: What were the major issues that you had to deal with?

MR. RADTKE: In land acquisition it was a lot of little things like when people didn’t

want us to get the land or didn’t want the government to control the land. We didn’t pay

our taxes, so to speak. And we didn’t hold up our end on weed control and on all kinds

of issues like that. This is how they felt. So we battled that day in and day out during

the years of acquisition. That was what sort of took the fun out of it at times. We

survived that. We bought a lot of land and I am very proud of that.

MS. NORTON: Is that how the issues were resolved, when you talked with them and

helped them feel more favorable towards FWS?

MR. RADTKE: A lot of them went beyond the local level up to the state level with the

Land Exchange Board in St. Paul. A lot of times the local people were overruled and of

course they weren’t happy about that. That was part of the system. So we were able to

get the land by that avenue.

MS. NORTON: Do you think that was the most pressing issue that you had?

MR. RADTKE: Yeah, the pros and cons of land acquisition; the antis versus getting the

land.

MS. NORTON: What was the major impediment to your job and career, if any?

MR. RADTKE: When I first started out, it was low budgets. When I was at Lake Andes

and Lacreek we had well… I shouldn’t say that because at Lake Andes we did get Carl

Mundt money and suddenly became fairly rich. In the early going we had very, very little

money. That kind of plagued us through the years. Money was always an issue in order

to do the kind of things you wanted to do. It could have been a lot worse. When I talk to

some of the older fellows who were before me, we didn’t know what being poor was.

Back in the old days it was really tight. I’d say funding was a major problem. A lack of

manpower was tied to funding. We could always use more people. I think those were

the major impediments that I can think of.

MS. NORTON: Did we go through all of your supervisors? I think we did.

MR. RADTKE: Well, I worked for John Ellis and then Vick Hall. He was a wetlands

man who had started in North Dakota. My third supervisor was Ralph Fries. Then

Steve Burlinger replaced Ralph. I worked for Steve for a couple months. Then I moved

to Oregon and worked for Joe Mazzoni for the time I was there. When I came back here I

worked for Norrell Wallace for quite a long time. Then it was Rollin Siegfried in the later

years. “Buzz” Robbins was basically my supervisor when I worked for Norrell and for

Rollin. He was the second in command. He was a very, very good guy. He was very

much underestimated. I don’t even remember now what his real name was. He’s passed

away now. He had been in the United States and worked for the State of South Dakota

for quite some time. Then he went up to Alaska and then came down here. He had a

great influence on my later career.

MS. NORTON: Who were the individuals who shaped your career?

MR. RADTKE: Well, I think several of the managers had a big influence on it. Probably

the biggest ones would have been Ralph Fries and John Carlson from the Regional Office.

I guess another person who had a major influence was a researcher out at Northern Prairie

by the name of Harold Duebbert. I always had a tremendous amount of respect for him.

I still do. From a management standpoint, he had a great deal of influence on my career

and on my thoughts. A lot of the other managers did too, it’s just that two or three of

them probably had a greater impact. As I mentioned, Buzz Robbins did as well, later on

in my career.

MS. NORTON: Who were some of the people that you knew who were not working for

FWS? Do you think they would be able to work for the FWS today?

MR. RADTKE: I can’t think of anybody specifically right now.

MS. NORTON: What Presidents, Secretaries of the Interior or Directors of FWS did you

work under?

MR. RADTKE: I can’t even… I wouldn’t be able to tell you of those. I remember

Udall. I was very impressed by him. I think he was the first one I worked for. I

remember when Dickle was chosen. I remember that everyone in the field of conservation

down here thought that the whole world was ending when he came in. The funny thing

about it was the way it turned out; at least in the eyes of people out in the field. We felt

that he turned out to be much better than what we expected, and probably much better

than some who everyone thought was going to so good. Other than that, it’s kind of a

blur. They never really seemed to have a great deal…maybe they did, but we didn’t

know it, influence on us.

MS. NORTON: How did changes in administrations affect your work?

MR. RADTKE: I couldn’t really tell a difference to be honest. Funding was the main

thing. But even then, sometimes it seemed that one of the parties would do a lot for us

and the other wouldn’t or gave us a hard time. Like I say, a lot of it is a blur. Out in the

field you just went with what you had and you did the best for the resource. You didn’t

have a whole lot of influence on what was happening up at the very highest levels. It

didn’t do a lot of good to sit there and complain or worry about it. You just did your job.

MS. NORTON: In your opinion, who were the individuals who shaped the FWS?

MR. RADTKE: I guess I would look more at those at the local or regional level. They

were doing the things on the ground. Things got watered down so much when they tried

to make changes from the top levels down. A lot of times I don’t think they had a great

deal of influence on what we did. We didn’t turn things around overnight because of

something that happened at the Washington level or whatever. I am sure it filtered its

way down and did have an influence, but it wasn’t anything that I felt was earthshaking in

most cases. Some of the regional office people that we worked for like Lynn Greenwalt

had a great influence I think. Forrest Carpenter had a great deal of influence in his day

because of the power that he had. People of that nature. Dick Tolsman had a great deal

of influence when the area offices came into play. He did a lot of modern type things to

improve the management and service. A lot of them we fought because we didn’t want to

see the change, or whatever, but in the long run they were good moves. I guess those are

the ones I remember.

MS. NORTON: What was the high point in your career?

MR. RADTKE: Not retirement! I guess the years that I was in Lake Andes were

wonderful because it was a great part of my career. I got a lot more responsibility

working for Ralph Fries. He kind of turned me loose. From a personal standpoint I met

my best friend when I was at Lake Andes. That was Harry “Tuck” Stone who recently

passed away. He was a manager down in Region 2 but at the time he was working at

Lake Andes. We were both young guys and we did a lot of things together. He spent a

lot of time with me and my family. That was probably the high point in my career. The

hunting was phenomenal in South Dakota too!

MS. NORTON: What was the low point in your career?

MR. RADTKE: There probably isn’t any specific, one time scenario. But it was

probably some of the beating that we took in the wetlands program for acquisition. When

we had to take on some of these special interest groups trying to buy land and got kicked

around a little bit. I probably took that a little more serious that I should have. I think

some of that you took on yourself because you were responsible for the whole thing.

That really wasn’t the case. You did the best you could, whatever happened. Normally

we were successful. We had a few defeats and those are the ones that kind of stick in

your mind. That was the low point.

MS. NORTON: What was your most dangerous or frightening experience?

MR. RADTKE: We got threatened by people who said they were going to shoot us a

couple of times in the wetlands program. We had a couple of characters who did things

like that. One time when I was at Malhuer, the ranchers…. Or the local element, I

shouldn’t say it was ranchers because nobody ever proved it was ranchers; but they shot

the windshield out of Joe Mazzoni’s truck when it was sitting in his yard. That got our

attention. And things got worse after I left Malhuer. There were some instances like that

but they were kind of few and far between.

MS. NORTON: How about a most humorous experience?

MR. RADTKE: Oh man! We had a lot of fun through the years. At a lot of our

meetings where you get together with all of your colleagues were fun. You turned in loose

and little bit and had a good time. You got rid of some of your frustrations I guess!

MS. NORTON: What would you like to tell others about your career and about the

FWS?

MR. RADTKE: I have always had a very positive impression of the FWS. I mean it

was so good to me. It shaped my life and gave me an opportunity for economic success.

It gave me the opportunity to travel and see more parts of the United States. I couldn’t

have lucked into any kind of an occupation that was better than what I did. I mean it was

just a wonderful chance to do the things that I never thought I’d get a chance to do. It

opened up a lot of avenues and friendships for me.

MS. NORTON: What were some of the changes that you observed in the FWS in

personnel or in the working environment?

MR. RADTKE: As I mentioned earlier, it wasn’t nearly as personal later on in my

career. It was more businesslike and people weren’t as close. Part of that had to do with

the fact that I was no longer on a refuge or a small refuge that had housing out on the

station. Those were the good ole days, as far as I am concerned. We became very close

knit. All of our better friends were developed out there. They are still friends. It never

would be the same for me. The FWS is still a good outfit to work for. I don’t think

that’s changed a great deal. But it’s different, just like the rest of the world.

MS. NORTON: Where do you see the FWS heading in the next decade?

MR. RADTKE: I really don’t have a clue because the world is changing so rapidly.

Things are becoming much, much tougher. When I came into the FWS we were basically

all men in the professional ranks. Most of us were rural, or small town people. I am

talking about the ones that I worked with out here. We were all hunters and fishermen. I

saw that change drastically in the thirty years that I was there. It was good that it

changed, because it had to change. The world was changing. It forced us to change our

attitudes and ways of doing business. That had a major influence.

MS. NORTON: Do you have any photographs or documents that you would like to

share or donate to the archives along with this interview?

MR. RADTKE: I really can’t think of anything that would be of significance. Most of

my stuff is just personal pictures and stuff.

MS. NORTON: Whom else do you think we should interview? We have like 1,600

names on the list I am working from now.

MR. RADTKE: I have no idea. Probably the names that I would throw out to you

would most likely already be on that list.

MS. NORTON: You mentioned John Ellis. I have a call in for him already.

MR. RADTKE: We had some guys who knew how to express themselves well. They

would be kind of interesting to interview. That would be Ralph Fries. He was a Region 3

guy. He ended up in Region 6. Norrell Wallace would have a few good stories I am sure.

He’d be a good one. Off hand that’s a couple I can think of. There are a lot of characters

who would be good to interview.

MS. NORTON: We’re going to try and get as many as we can get done! My goal is 50

by the first of the year and you are number 36! Thanks Al, very much for your time

today.

MR. RADTKE: You bet, I enjoyed it!