Jack West oral history transcript

              INTERVIEW WITH JACK WEST

BY DOROTHE NORTON FEBRUARY 18, 2003

Also present Mrs. Jack West (Ruth)

MS. NORTON: Good afternoon, Jack. It’s good to see you!

DR. WEST: I’m glad to see you Dot, I’ve been looking forward to this.

MS. NORTON: That’s good because we’re going to do this interview and it will go into

the NCTC at Shepherdstown. It will be transcribed there and put into the Archives. If

you’d like a copy after they’ve transcribed it, we can have one sent to you.

DR. WEST: That would be delightful.

MS. NORTON: Okay. So we’ll start by asking you your birthplace and date.

DR. WEST: That would be November 3, 1925, outside of Anna, Illinois in the County of

Union.

MS. NORTON: What were your parent’s names?

DR. WEST: My mother’s name was Ferbia and her maiden name was Waller. She

married Corlis C. West. They were married on September 16, 1921.

MS. NORTON: What were their jobs and education?

DR. WEST: Mom was a homemaker. She started when her and my dad met at the

hospital, which was an insane institution. Mother worked out there as an Attendant at

the Institution. My dad lived on a farm with his folks out north of the Institution. He

got acquainted with Mom there and they got married. Dad went off to Chicago after they

got married and went through a technical training school for carpentry. He came back to

southern Illinois. We lived in several different places around Anna, in Union County and

he did carpentry work. Finally, he got on as a supervisor for the twenty-four inch

pipeline during World War II that went through from Texas to the east coast. It came up

through southern Illinois and he helped put in two relay stations there on the pipeline.

MS. NORTON: Where did you spend your early years?

DR. WEST: I stayed in Union County all of my life until I went into the military service

in 1944. I went through high school…well, I didn’t make it all the way through high

school. I was drafted by Uncle Sam in my last year of high school. I had to go into the

service and I think I lacked one and a half credits to get my high school degree. Uncle

Sam, thanks to my Uncle being on the Draft Board, wouldn’t defer me until I could get it.

So when I finished up my basic training I got two credits for that so my Company

Commander submitted the forms for the two credits to the High School and my Dad went

up and got my Diploma for me.

MS. NORTON: What High School was that?

DR. WEST: That was Anna Jones Borough Community High School in Anna, Illinois.

MS. NORTON: What year would you have graduated?

DR. WEST: I graduated in 1944.

MS. NORTON: What did you do during your early years?

DR. WEST: Dad worked on a farm and I helped on the farm early on. When he moved

into town, for two years of high school I worked for a Pharmacist and got my

apprenticeship pharmacy license from the State of Illinois. I helped in the drug store

there until I was drafted.

MS. NORTON: Did you have any hobbies or books that you enjoyed?

DR. WEST: Hunting and fishing! I loved to hunt and fish. Of course, I was a Scout. I

enjoyed Scouting and that went right along with the outdoors. My younger brother and I

used to always go hunting, and I was always out in the field. Or we were out mowing the

yard, or doing something around the house, but outside. My older brother was more on

an indoors type. He loved music and played the clarinet and did that sort of thing. He

helped Mom sewing. He loved to use the sewing machine. He stayed in the house, so

my younger brother and I were the raunchy ones!

MS. NORTON: So then you went in the Service? You were in the Service actually,

when your graduation day was. How long were you in the Service?

DR. WEST: Two years.

MS. NORTON: And what branch were you in?

DR. WEST: I was in the Army. I spent six months in the States after I went in to the

Service in February of 1944. First I was inducted up at Fort Sheridan outside of Chicago.

I went to Camp Claiborne in Louisiana and did my basic training. Then they shipped me

all of the way across to Oregon. In southern Oregon there was Camp White outside of

Grants Pass, or Medford, Oregon. We did training there. I was in an

Engineering/Forestry Company, 1390 1st Engineering/Forestry Co. We did our training

there for running a sawmill and doing forestry work; cutting down trees and this sort of

thing. We shipped back across the United States on a train to Massachusetts. Then we

shipped out of Boston to go overseas. We crossed the Atlantic on a ship that took us a

week to cross. There was no escort. That was in July of 1944. We went into Glasgow,

England and got on a train and went south to Wales down in Berry, Wales. We stayed

there for less than a month. Then we boarded a ship at Southampton and went across the

Channel on a landing craft infantry ship and hit Cherbourg Beach. We went into

Normandy.

MS. NORTON: That was quite a two years I would say!

MR. WEST: Yeah, I spent a year in Europe. Then I shipped back to the States and was

in Camp Bunter, North Carolina preparing with the 4th Infantry Division to invade Japan

when they dropped the Atomic Bomb.

MS. NORTON: Did you get any decorations while you were in the Service?

DR. WEST: Nah, nothing.

MS. NORTON: Did you come back then, and go to school after you got out of the

Service?

DR. WEST: Yes. I was discharged in February, almost two years exactly to date that I

entered the Service. In March, I entered Southern Illinois University. It was Southern

Illinois Normal University at that time. That was less than a month from the time I was

discharged and I started my education.

MS. NORTON: When did you get your degree, and what was it in?

DR. WEST: I finished my bachelor’s degree in 1949, in three years. Then I got my

master’s degree in 1950. In 1949, I picked up what was the jewel of my life! I married

Ruth!

MS. NORTON: Did you have any courses or mentors that especially stuck with you

while you were in school?

DR. WEST: I had a professor by the name of Willard Gershbacher who was the head of

the Zoology Department. He was the nicest individual I guess, that I’ve ever had as a

teacher. He ended up being my major “Prof.”. He encouraged me to get into the field of

Fisheries when Bill Lewis came down from Iowa State to set up the Fisheries School at

SIU. I was Bill Lewis’ first graduate student.

MS. NORTON: Can you tell me know how and when and where you met your wife?

DR. WEST: Ahah, sure I can!

MS. NORTON: You can listen Ruth if you want to!

MRS. WEST: I am going to listen and make sure he gets in right!

DR. WEST: Ruth’s mother ran what I guess you’d call a Boarding House where she fed

students two meals a day. There was no breakfast, but she would feed them lunch and

then the evening meal which we call supper in southern Illinois. A lot of people call it

dinner. Ma Bateman was who it was. She was Ruth’s mother. Ma Bateman fed about

eight of us students at the college. She did this all week until Friday night because most

of the guys lit out on the weekend to go home. Anyway, that’s where I got to know my

beloved, was through eating at Ma Bateman’s. After I had been eating there for oh, I

don’t know, a year or so, I was coming home one day and she was on the front porch. I

had with me, I was taking Comparative Anatomy, at the time; Internal Comparative

Anatomy. Part of that course is that you had to know the Cranial Nerves. I had a sheep

brain in this jar of formaldehyde so I could study the cranial nerves on this sheep brain. I

was quite proud of this, and I was walking up the street and this young lady over on the

front porch says, “Hey, I’ve got one of those!” I said, “No, I know everybody in the

Comparative Anatomy class and you’re not one of the students.” She says, “I’ve got one

of those anyway!” I said, “Oh you have, I’d like to see it!” She went in the house and

came out, and there it was. She had a sheep’s brain, same as mine. I said, “Well where in

the world did you get it?” She was going with a guy that was in my Comparative

Anatomy class by the name of Bill Martin. He brought it home and left it with her while

he was off doing something else. So she did have one, but it wasn’t hers. So that’s how

we got acquainted, over a sheep’s brain!

MS. NORTON: When and where did you get married?

DR. WEST: We got married in Carbondale, Illinois on February 12, 1949 at a Missouri

Synod Lutheran Church.

MRS. WEST: Dorothe, we had our first date on Thanksgiving and we were married the

very next February. Three months!

MS. NORTON: Well, that’s all right! It’s lasted this long Ruth, it much be good!

DR. WEST: And she started gaining weight. From a small town of five thousand or less

people began to talk. People said, “Oh, yeah, umhum! They started going together in

November and got married in February, look at that weight that she’s put on, there must

be a cause for this!” Well, it took her two and a half years to have the kid! So the rumors

got squelched in a hurry!

MS. NORTON: Yeah, they sure do don’t they?! So how many children do you have?

DR. WEST: We have three. The oldest one is Jacquelyn. She and her husband now live

out in Helena, Montana. They have two boys. Both of them are in college. The oldest

of her boys is at Marquette University studying in the Medical field. The younger one is

a Montana State University a Boson.

MS. NORTON: What does Jacquelyn do?

DR. WEST: She is a teacher. She teaches in Elementary Education as a Counselor and

Special Ed teacher. Her husband got his degree in Geology and now he is working for the

State of Montana. The next child is Douglas. He works for Grief Brothers at Rosemont,

which is a cartage industry that makes boxes and sacks and barrels and that sort of thing.

He has been there for pretty close to twenty-five years. He has one son. He’s not

married. The wife left him when the boy was eighteen months old. So grandma helped

out in raising the young man. He will be twenty-three this spring. They lived here in

Apple Valley. The youngest one is Corlis Wayne. He’s named after his grandpa. He

now is living between Duluth and Two Harbors on a hobby farm. They have two boys.

The oldest one is a graduate of Milwaukee School of Engineering as an Electrical Engineer.

The other boy is Benjamin. He is in his senior year at University of Minnesota. He is

going in to the Biological field. He is hoping to be a teacher one of these days. Corlis’

wife is Pamela. She teaches Elementary School at Superior, Wisconsin. She’s working on

her Master’s degree.

MS. NORTON: It looks they inherited some of your genes, as far as getting smart!

DR. WEST: Well, I don’t know, it’s probably an accident!

MS. NORTON: I don’t think so.

MRS. WEST: You didn’t say what Corlis does.

DR. WEST: Corlis works for the EPA lab in Duluth. He’s a Biologist. He got his degree

from Bemidji State and works now with the EPA in the big lab right out on the east side

of Duluth.

MS. NORTON: Oh that’s great. Now, we’re going to move on to your career. Why did

you want to work for the FWS?

DR. WEST: Well, I got my start like I say, after I finished my bachelor’s degree;

Gershbacher and Lewis who were my major “Profs” during my bachelors and masters

degree recommended that I go up so they could get me a teaching assistantship at Iowa

State University. So I went up there and worked on my Doctorate at Iowa State. After I

finished up, up there I went to North Carolina. I worked for the North Carolina Wildlife

Resources Department. I worked there for three years. Then I went to South Carolina

with the Resources Commission. I worked for three years as an assistant to the head of

Fisheries in South Carolina. In North Carolina, I was a Hatchery Manager on a dual

purpose hatchery which raised both cold and warm water Trout. In South Carolina I was

in the State office at Columbia. I was the Assistant to the Chief of Fisheries there. I was

in charge of all the fish hatcheries in South Carolina. I left South Carolina in 1968. I then

transferred over to the FWS.

MS. NORTON: Where did you start with FWS?

DR. WEST: In Atlanta, Region 4. I was there for eleven years.

MS. NORTON: What did you think the pay and benefits were like?

DR. WEST: I was quite impressed after working with the States for six years. I thought,

“Gee whiz, if I can get on as GS-9 I’m really stepping up in the world.” I had been told

that the retirement benefits were something that you just absolutely couldn’t beat

regardless of where you went. The increase in pay and the retirement benefits influenced

me considerably in leaving the state and going in to the federal government.

MS. NORTON: So, you started with FWS in Atlanta, and were there for eleven years?

DR. WEST: Yes, I was in the Regional Office. I was Assistant Regional Supervisor

there.

MS. NORTON: Where did you go from there?

DR. WEST: I moved up here. The Deputy Regional Director come to me and says,

“You have a choice, you’ve been here long enough now and your next position will either

be in Boston or in Minneapolis. If you want to draw your next check, you’ve got to

make a decision about which one you want to go to.” I came home and talked to Ruth and

we both agreed that Boston wasn’t going to be one of the choices so we decided to take

the position in Minneapolis. They told me that’s where my next check was going to

issued to. So I left a wife and three teenagers in Atlanta; or actually our in Decatur, a

suburb of Atlanta and moved up here under Ray Vaughn as a Regional Supervisor in

Fisheries.

MS. NORTON: So you spent the rest of your career here in Minneapolis Regional

Office?

DR. WEST: I most certainly did.

MS. NORTON: That’s very good. How do you think your career affected your family?

DR. WEST: I guess for all of the time that we’ve been married; we figured out that we’d

moved nineteen times! This was the nineteenth time, when we moved up here in 1968.

We got married in 1949, so… My family have been very supportive of me and I guess the

blackest hat I ever wore was when I took my daughter, who is the oldest child out of her

senior year of high school; and moved her from Atlanta to Minneapolis. That was one

mean old man; until she was almost a junior in college up at St. Cloud. Then she came to

me one day and said, “Dad, that was the best thing you could have done for me!” I asked

her what she meant. She said, “You got me out of a clique that was in Georgia where I

knew just the same group and no more than that. We all associated together and had been

together since first grade.” I pulled her out of that and brought he up here and set her

down in an environment that she was totally unaccustomed to. She knew nobody and she

adjusted so it and she thanked me for making the move and letting her see another side of

the world that she wouldn’t have seen if she had stayed in Atlanta.

MS. NORTON: That’s really good!

DR. WEST: It was tough and go there, I’ll tell you! For about four years!

MS. NORTON: Did you have promotion opportunities when you came with FWS?

DR. WEST: Yes! I started out as a GS-9 and ended up as a GS-12.

MS. NORTON: Did you socialize with people that you worked with?

DR. WEST: I had more fun with people that I worked with and people from Church.

We’ve never been; of all the nineteen places that we’ve lived, or moved to, we’ve never

found that we couldn’t make friends and socialize. We just had very enjoyable time with

people that I worked with, and also through the Church. We enjoyed every move.

MS. NORTON: So you retired when?

DR. WEST: 1985, in August.

MS. NORTON: What sort of training did you receive for your jobs after you came on

with FWS? Did you receive any training, or did you just learn it?

DR. WEST: Yes, when I was in Atlanta they sent me up to the Trout Nutrition School at

Courtland, New York under Dr. Arthur Phillips. At one time Abe Tunison headed up

that training school up there. Of course Abe moved on in to Washington and became

Deputy Director. Art Phillips took over and I was up there for a year in the in-service

training school. There were about six of us students from all over the United States who

were accepted into that training school for that year.

MS. NORTON: What hours did you work, just the regular office hours?

DR. WEST: No, when you’re out assigned to a field area, doing an inspection or doing an

inventory on the fish populations and this sort of thing, you don’t look at the clock. You

work and get the job done.

MS. NORTON: There’s not much you can do about it is there?

DR. WEST: You come on in and call it a day whenever that is. You don’t worry about

looking at the clock and figuring out whether it’s five o’clock in the afternoon. You get

the job done.

MS. NORTON: Did you use any special tools or instruments in your job working at the

Fisheries or wherever?

DR. WEST: No, I guess the thing in South Carolina where we were doing a lot of

population studies out on the lakes. We were going out and using rotenone and poisoning

out areas of the lake. Then we’d come in and determine what the population was and

how much there was of the sunfish and carnivores or predators. We were making

recommendations and putting those recommendations in to practice afterwards.

MS. NORTON: Did you witness any new Service inventions during the time you were

with FWS?

DR. WEST: I guess computer stuff. I tried to stay away from that. I never did cotton to

the idea of setting down at a computer and trying to figure out stuff. The most

complicated thing I’ve got in my house is that push button phone over there! I don’t

email anybody, and nobody emails me!

MS. NORTON: Did you work with animals, or just with fish?

DR. WEST: Just fish.

MS. NORTON: Okay, and how did you feel toward the fish?

DR. WEST: Like I say, earlier in life that was one of my enjoyments going fishing. I just

got into a field, that I studied in and got educated in and something that I have just loved

all of my life; and I still do occasionally.

MS. NORTON: That’s great! How do you think the FWS was perceived by people

outside of the agency?

DR. WEST: I think that we had a program in South Carolina that was something that I

think the Service would have benefited from if they’d adopted it. It was to get out and

rub elbows with the people that was using the resource. If you were ready to go…in

South Carolina, the Director would encourage to go out deer hunting with the public and

ask them questions about what they thought of the population; or whether it was

healthy; and waterfowl hunting with the ducks and geese. He’d encourage you to go out

on opening day or something like that and rub elbows with the people who were utilizing

the resource. And it was the same way with fishing. I’ve been out several times and I

asked if I would draw pay for this. And they said, “Sure you do! How else are you

going to know whether we’re doing a decent job or not, or whether it’s something that the

public is satisfied with?” They told me to get out there and find out. And that’s the only

way to do it. Don’t rely on somebody writing an article in the paper and criticizing you

for not doing something, or for doing something that you shouldn’t have done. I think the

FWS, if they would have more public relations, with the public who are utilizing the

product that the Service is responsible for; I think it would be to our advantage.

MS. NORTON: What projects were you involved in?

DR. WEST: The big one I guess in FWS was the building of the Iron River National Fish

Hatchery in Wisconsin.

MS. NORTON: Where is that, way up north?

DR. WEST: Yeah, it’s in northwest Wisconsin. It’s the only Lake Trout Hatchery in

Wisconsin.

MS. NORTON: What were the major issues that you had to deal with?

DR. WEST: Back then; I think the major issue was trying to acquire land. Gosh, that

was terrible. We had located the area that we wanted to put it on. We found the water

supply source, which was a huge, nice spring where we wanted to build the Hatchery and

have that as a water supply. But boy, we had one time trying to get a hold of the land!

Other than that; once we acquired that, I think we sold the idea that a fish hatchery was

needed and that we needed to replenish the Lake Trout in Lake Superior. If there was an

overabundance for Lake Superior, we’d use them over in Lake Michigan. After the public

was convinced that that was our purpose, it was resolved.

MS. NORTON: What was your most pressing issue?

DR. WEST: I don’t know about that one. I don’t know of any Dot, that I would

consider and issue, which I’d want to talk about.

MS. NORTON: Okay. Can you remember of your supervisors?

DR. WEST: Yeah, starting in the FWS the first one was John Blausz; he was the

Regional Supervisor for Fisheries. Assistant Regional Director was Russell Fielding. And

the Assistant Regional Supervisor was Arno Fuller. After Blaus retired and Fuller retired,

Charlie Malloy came in as Regional Supervisor and I was Assistant Regional Supervisor.

Then I moved up here and in Region 3 it was Ray Vaughn; he was the Regional

Supervisor and I was the Assistant. After Ray went in to Washington there was Bill

Daugherty. Then Daugherty left and it was Baumgartner. I guess that was about the end

of the road for me!

MS. NORTON: Who do you think the individuals were who helped shape your career?

DR. WEST: I guess that started way back when I was with the States; Jeff Fuller in

South Carolina helped as much as anybody. There was Ray Vaughn up here. Blause and

Arno Fuller ran a real tight ship, but I don’t think that they had a whole lot of influence as

far as trying to shape my career. I think Ray Vaughn helped out a lot when I moved up

here.

MS. NORTON: Who were some of the people you knew outside of our agency? Do

you think they would have been able to work for the Service?

DR. WEST: I don’t know Dot. Some of them would come in ask me whether there was a

position open or not and if there was, I’d have to ask them what their qualifications were.

They’d say they had a bachelor’s degree. And at the time, unless you’ve got some

experience to go along with that you don’t stand much of a chance of getting in to the

FWS, at this time. At the time we were as full up as we could get as far as employment.

There were very few vacancies and if we do have one, we’re looking for somebody with a

bachelor’s or master’s degree and some experience. That could be gotten through the

States, and I thought that was the best thing for people to do.

MS. NORTON: Do you remember what Presidents, Secretaries of the Interior or

Directors of FWS that you worked under?

DR. WEST: I guess I come in with Dan Jansen. You don’t remember Jansen? He was

the Director I think, at the time. Gresch was the Regional Director and there was Bill

Townes in Region 4. Burwell was up here, and Walt Schaffer was the Deputy. Lynn

Greenwalt was in the carpool with us when he was in the Region. I still see Lynn. I

think the world of him. I thought a lot of Lynn. He ended up in Washington as Director.

Those are the ones I remember fondly.

MS. NORTON: How do you think changes in the Administrations affected our work?

DR. WEST: I guess Dot, the thing that bothers me is that, and I guess this is from being

an old fogey, is that if they’ve got qualified people in the field who have done a good job

and have been rated in their performance; why don’t they move these people up in to

Regional Office positions? Then, if they’ve done a good job in the Regional Office; why

don’t they make them Directors instead of going outside and bringing people in from all

over Timbuktu and setting them down in the Regional Directors or Director’s Office and

say “Oh, well, we have to see another side of it!” Well, seeing the other side doesn’t do a

thing for me! Why don’t you take care of your own people, and the things that you’re

doing; and get people who are familiar with it, and let them take care of it? I guess that

bothers me tremendously. Just about every time when a position comes open, they go

outside and bring somebody in from outside who knows virtually nothing about what we

are trying to accomplish as a Service.

MS. NORTON: In your opinion, who do you think the individuals were who shaped the

FWS?

DR. WEST: Oh, I think E.G. Douglas, back when he was head of Fisheries in

Washington, and Abe Tunison, when he was Assistant Director in Washington were the

people who affected Fisheries more than anybody who had ever been there before or after

them. I think that as far as the Fisheries; and I can’t talk about anybody else, I think they

had more influence, and more camaraderie with the field people and Regional Offices.

They knew what was trying to be accomplished and could go out and talk one on one

with them. They could say that they had worked on a fish hatchery and knew what was

going on. They could make judgments and recommendations. I think people who have

had experience at hatcheries or in the field and have advanced to that higher position have

a better understanding of how the work is to be done and where it’s coming from.

MS. NORTON: Can you tell me what the high point of your career was? You must

have had one, at least one!

DR. WEST: I guess moving up here and working for Ray Vaughn was the high point. I

really enjoyed Ray. I knew Ray from before. We graduated together from our bachelor’s

degree programs. V was right before W in the graduation line, so it was Ray Vaughn and

then Jack West.

MS. NORTON: He was at the same college you were?

DR. WEST: Yeah!

MS. NORTON: Isn’t that something? That’s great!

DR. WEST: Don Hankle was another one in the FWS. He was in school with me too.

There’s another one too and I can’t remember his name. There was four of us from the

little town of Anna who all ended up in the FWS. It was Steve Brimm who is now the

head of the Spearfish unit, out there.

MS. NORTON: Oh, I met him last year.

DR. WEST: He’s from Anna.

MS. NORTON: Isn’t that something!? Did you have any low point in your career?

DR. WEST: Well, not really. I thoroughly enjoyed working. It’s a field that I enjoyed

before I ever…when I was a young man. I enjoyed it all of the time I was in school; being

out in the field and hunting and fishing. My dad asked me, “Son, do you really like your

job?” and I said, “Yeah, I studied for it, and got my education in the field that I’m working

in now, and I hope to stay in it until I can retire!” He told me that this was the neatest

thing he had ever heard. He said that anybody who was working for a living and enjoying

what they were doing; that was the ultimate! He said that when you were working, and

not enjoying it, that was close to being in hell. No, I don’t figure I’ve had a low point in

my career.

MS. NORTON: That’s good! Did you ever have a dangerous or frightening experience?

DR. WEST: Not in my career, no.

MS. NORTON: I bet you’ve had a humorous experience! Can you think of any one

particular one that you’d like to share with us?

DR. WEST: Well, it might reflect on the people.

MS. NORTON: That’s okay.

DR. WEST: Maybe I’d better stay away from that one.

MS. NORTON: So you’ve told other people about your career in the FWS a little bit?

DR. WEST: Yeah.

MS. NORTON: What were some of the changes that you observed in the Service, like in

personnel and the work environment?

DR. WEST: I guess the big change has been in the way people, as a whole, look at the

Fishery section of the Service. At think that at the time I came in, Fisheries were on an

equal footing with Refuges. And we probably had as many; hundreds of fish hatcheries at

the time that I came into the Service. They have closed I don’t know how many

hatcheries all over the United States; sold them to the states for a dollar, or whatever. At

the time I retired, I think we were at the low end. I was reading in the FWS newsletter

that now, they think Fisheries is important again, and that they are going to start putting

some more money into the Fisheries work, trying to bring it back to a point where it’s

more than a poor cousin to the Refuge System, or any of the other branches of the FWS.

I’d say that I am in favor of that. I thought Fisheries had a definite role that was well

worth looking into and financing. I think we went through a point there for a while when

I thought they were going to close them all!

MS. NORTON: I’m glad they didn’t!

DR. WEST: Yeah!

MS. NORTON: What are your thoughts on the future of the FWS? Where do you see

us heading in the next decade?

DR. WEST: I hope they continue on the path of trying to improve not only the

environment, so it can support the populations of wildlife; whether it’s fisheries or

animals. If they continue on that line, I think that there is going to fish to be harvested

and wild game to be taken by generations to come. But if they let the environment

continue to degrade I don’t think we’re going to be heading in a direction that anybody

wants to go in. I think it’s something that generations to come won’t know what we

know right now as far as getting out into rural country and having a good day at either

fishing or hunting. I just think it will be a thing of the past. If it isn’t that, it will be

confined to a very restricted area where you’ll have to go in and pay for hunting. Or,

you’ll have to pay for fishing on this pond, or lake or whatever. I don’t think that this is

the way we want to go. I think that if FWS does their part, maybe we can have

something for the generations to come to appreciate as far as outdoor life is concerned.

MS. NORTON: We are just about done. Who else to you think we should interview? Is

there anybody that we’ve talked about, or anybody we haven’t mentioned? This list is

not complete. There are people who should be on here who are not. We’re working on

updating it.

DR. WEST: No, from what I looked at there, it’s Dick Uptgreth and you’ve got to have

to have Young.

MS. NORTON: If I can ever get a hold of him! He knows I’m after him with the double-barreled

shotgun!

DR. WEST: And I guess Sisck.

MS. NORTON: I’ve done Larry. I’ve done Jerry Decker.

DR. WEST: You’re doing real well then, Dot!

MS. NORTON: Thank you! And I have enjoyed doing it too! So I want to thank you

for your time this afternoon. We’ll look forward to seeing you down in Florida in a

couple of weeks!

DR. WEST: We’re heading there! We’re going to drive down and go through Atlanta and

see if we can renew old friendships, you bet!