Bill Greenwald oral history transcript

              INTERVIEW WITH BILL GREENWALD

BY DOROTHE NORTON MAY 9, 2003

MS. NORTON: Good morning Bill, I am glad you had time you could take from your

busy schedule to do this interview. The FWS is happy to get memories of people that

worked along time for them. The first thing I’d like to know is your birthplace, and date.

MR. GREENWALD: I was born on April 10, 1943 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

MS. NORTON: And your parent’s names?

MR. GREENWALD: My father’s name was Edmund Greenwald and my mother’s name

is Louise Greenwald. My dad had passed away and my mother is still living. She will be

ninety this year.

MS. NORTON: What were your parent’s jobs and their education?

MR. GREENWALD: As far as I know they were both high school graduates. They

were not college graduates. My dad was a golf professional. He owned his own business.

And my mother stayed at home. She was a pianist. She taught students. As a matter of

fact, she still teaches. She has about six students now, even though she’s ninety years

old. She’s had students all of her life. She started teaching lessons when she was in her

twenties.

MS. NORTON: That’s very good! Where did you spend your early years, all in

Wisconsin?

MR. GREENWALD: In Milwaukee, and we had a cottage in northern Wisconsin at

Shawano Lake that my grandfather built. There were four children; my brother and two

sisters. We were fortunate enough to spend all summer long in this cottage that my

grandfather built. We were really lucky.

MS. NORTON: How did you spend your early years? Did you have any hobbies or

books or things that were special to you?

MR. GREENWALD: Playing golf, since my dad was a golf professional. I flew model

airplanes. Those were my two hobbies. We played baseball, my brother and I. Just

general kid things.

MS. NORTON: Did you ever hunt or fish while you were a boy?

MR. GREENWALD: No. Well, we fished up at the lake. We did a little fishing, but I

never did any hunting. I killed one animal one time and that’s when I decided it just

wasn’t for me.

MS. NORTON: Did you ever have any jobs when you were a child like a paper route?

MR. GREENWALD: My first job was a paper route! It was a morning route where I

had to deliver papers at five o’clock in the morning.

MS. NORTON: Where and when did you graduate from high school?

MR. GREENWALD: I graduated in 1961 from Menomonie Falls High School. We

moved to Menomonie Falls in 1959. It was a suburb thirty miles out of Milwaukee to

the northwest.

MS. NORTON: What university did you attend? What degree did you earn and when

did you graduate?

MR. GREENWALD: I have a bachelor’s degree in Civil Engineering. I graduated from

the University of Wisconsin in 1972.

MS. NORTON: Did you go on for a master’s or anything?

MR. GREENWALD: No.

MS. NORTON: Who do you think influenced your education and the tract of your

career?

MR. GREENWALD: Well, I have a sister who influenced me to extend my education

beyond the military. I was in the Air Force for four years. I had the GI Bill, and she

influenced me into continuing my education. I would have to say that my biggest

influence was my sister. My mother did too, but my big influence because my mother

was not a college graduate, was my sister. She gave me the kick.

MS. NORTON: So you were in the U.S. Air Force?

MR. GREENWALD: I was in the Air Force for four years and one day, to be exact. It

was 1962 to 1966.

MS. NORTON: What were your duty stations?

MR. GREENWALD: I went to school for a year. I was at Lockland for basic training for

five weeks. Then I went to two technical schools in Wichita Falls, Texas at Shepherd Air

Force Base. This was before Vietnam, in 1963 and I was very lucky to get a three-year

assignment to Wiesbaden, Germany. That’s were I was for three years. I was very

lucky.

MS. NORTON: Did you get any decorations?

MR. GREENWALD: No, just the standard ribbons that you get.

MS. NORTON: What was your job?

MR. GREENWALD: I was a cryptographer.

MS. NORTON: A which?

MR. GREENWALD: A cryptographer. We had to code and decode classified messages.

I was also a Teletype operator at the same time.

MS. NORTON: Okay, but none of your experience in the Air Force made you want to

work for the FWS?

MR. GREENWALD: None.

MS. NORTON: Have you ever been married?

MR. GREENWALD: No.

MS. NORTON: So then you don’t have a family of any children?

MR. GREENWALD: No.

MS. NORTON: So we’ll move on to your career!

MS. GREENWALD: That’s more interesting anyway!

MS. NORTON: Was there any particular reason why you wanted to work for FWS?

MR. GREENWALD: Well, I worked for the Corps of Engineers at Madison, Wisconsin.

And they decided to close the office. The FWS in 1977 was looking for Civil Engineers

for their BLH program; the Bicentennial Land Heritage, you remember that. I applied

because they were closing the office down in Madison and they would have assigned me

to some place that I didn’t want to go. I heard Minneapolis was a very nice city to live in

and I applied for the job, and they hired me. It was a five-year program, that’s what they

told. So after five years I would probably be looking for a new job. Well, it turned out

that they continued to need their civil engineering staff and our skills and I was with them

for eighteen or nineteen years. So the five years didn’t end. It was extended because of

the workload. But I was originally hired for that BLH program.

MS. NORTON: So your first professional job was with the Corps of Engineers?

MR. GREENWALD: No, my first professional job out of college was with the Newport

News Ship Building Company in Virginia. I was there for a year as a Facilities Engineer.

My background was in structural engineering so I designed some of their walking control;

anything to do with their structures. Then, I left after and year and went to Spankrete

and designed pre-stressed concrete for a year as a structural engineer. When I decided to

leave there, that’s when I worked for the Corps of Engineers for three years. They closed

the office and then I went to the FWS. So basically in my career, I’ve only had four jobs.

MS. NORTON: What did you think the pay and benefits were like when you can with

FWS?

MR. GREENWALD: I thought they were excellent. In 1977 I made $17,500.00. That’s

what I made when I bought this house. I came here as a GS-11, so I was happy with my

salary. It was equivalent or better from when I worked for Spankrete; it was much better

than that. And the benefits were a lot better. Because of my military service, I received

four weeks of vacation. That was very generous, so I didn’t complain about those things.

MS. NORTON: Did you have promotion opportunities during your career with FWS?

MR. GREENWALD: Yes, I obtained the class of GS-12. I don’t know how long it took

me. It was probably too long because I had a little problem with one of my supervisors; a

little personality problem. But I was a GS-12 when I retired. I think it probably took me

six or seven years. I’d have to look at the records.

MS. NORTON: What did you do for recreation in the field when you were working with

our people is FWS? Did you play ball, or golf?

MR. GREENWALD: Yeah, they would have the annual golf tournament. Because my

dad was a golf professional, and I played golf in the Air Force; I played for the Air Force

teams, so I was a better than average golfer and I played in the annual tournament.

Basically, I don’t really think I did too many other social things.

MS. NORTON: And you left the Service because you were eligible for retirement?

MR. GREENWALD: Right. I left under an early retirement program that Vice President

Gore sponsored to reduce federal employment. I think they gave me $25,000.00 to retire

in order to reduce the federal employment.

MS. NORTON: Did you retire in 1994?

MR. GREENWALD: No, in 1995. January 3rd to be exact.

MS. NORTON: I retired on May 1st of 1994 for the same reason with the buyout

program.

MR. GREENWALD: Oh okay, so I retired under that same program. You retired a year

before I did though.

MS. NORTON: What kind of training did you get for your job when you came with

FWS?

MR. GREENWALD: Well, I thought the outside training was excellent. They would

send us to Corps of Engineers schools. I wonder, no, I don’t think I went to a FWS

school. Our training in the Engineering Office was basically engineering type training.

The FWS offered more for Refuge Managers and those. So they sent us to; I went to a

Department of the Interior school, a Corps of Engineers school, so that was basically our

outside training. It was excellent. We were going to school at least once a year, or maybe

once every two years. But our training was excellent, I thought.

MS. NORTON: When you worked in the Regional Office you worked regular office

hours. But what kind of hours did you have to work out in the field if you were on

assignment?

MR. GREENWALD: When we were on assignment, which was quite often, because we

had to follow up on our own jobs; with the construction aspect and working with

contractors. We were basically on our own. It was an honor system. No one was there

to keep track of what you were doing. But I would get out to the refuge early in the

morning exactly when the refuge opened. I would work with the contractor. And if we

had to work late with the contractor I would stay with them. Sometimes I stayed in a

motel on Friday night because the contractor wanted to work on Saturday morning during

some important phase of construction and it was very important that I was there. So I

had to stay overnight on a Friday night in a motel. Then, I worked with the refuge and

whatever their hours were, or, after working with the contractor.

MS. NORTON: What were your day-to-day duties working on these projects?

MR. GREENWALD: Out in the field, or in the office?

MS. NORTON: Both.

MS. GREENWALD: In the office each engineer was responsible for their own project.

In the design phase, each engineer had to design their own work, be it a water control

structure or a road, or whatever the project was. Then it went out for bids from the

contracting office. Then the bid was awarded to a construction contractor. Then we

would follow up with the pre-construction meeting and all of the subsequent inspections.

Plus we were responsible for the change orders and paying the contractor. Each engineer

basically, was responsible from the initial design to when it was absolutely completed and

turned over to the federal government. The engineer was responsible for that whole

series.

MS. NORTON: That’s a lot of responsibility! What kinds of special tools, or

instruments did you have to use?

MR. GREENWALD: In the office we used the computers, calculators and all drawing

equipment because we did a lot of our own drawing work. I used the blueprint and copy

machine. I am trying to think of others.

MS. NORTON: Was there something that only engineers used?

MR. GREENWALD: Our computer programs. They were set up for us. In the field

each engineer had to do his own survey work. So we had surveying equipment; levels,

theodolites, plus other surveying equipment that we had to carry out to the job. And we

were responsible for taking care of it. It was very expensive equipment. So out in the

field it was basically surveying equipment that was used quite a bit.

MS. NORTON: Did you ever work with any animals?

MR. GREENWALD: No, not really. I saw a lot of animals! In the FWS, sure out on the

refuges! But we were never responsible for that sort of thing. We had the chance to

observe them, and that was a pleasure in itself right there.

MS. NORTON: How do you think the Service was perceived by people outside of the

agency, like when you were working on a certain project?

MR. GREENWALD: Excellent.

MS. NORTON: So the agency/community relations were good?

MR. GREENWALD: I only know of one situation, possibility two where there were

some negative vibrations. One was a refuge, I can’t remember exactly where, in Illinois.

There was a community living right next door and they, for some odd reason had it in for

the FWS. It was a bizarre community. I can’t remember the refuge. But they told us

after work not to go into any of the bars in the area because there wasn’t a real good

relationship. It was a kind of a cult type group of people. It was very strange. The

Refuge Managers just warned us not to socialize with these people after work. Then we

did a project up at Sherburne one time. One of the engineers in the office bought an

outhouse that was very expensive. It was supposed to be anti-theft, and you couldn’t

destroy it or anything. It was supposed to be vandalism proof. He bought it through a

contractor. The company had a contract with the government for these outhouses. The

engineers specked it out and it was kind of expensive and it hit the local newspapers and

they made a big deal out of this expensive outhouse. It was a fellow in the Engineering

office; I don’t want to mention his name but it was all over the newspapers here. It was

an expensive outhouse, and as a matter of fact, I know it’s still up there. That’s the only;

those two incidents are really the only negative ones that I can recall. I don’t think those

were real serious.

MS. NORTON: It seems to me I recall something like that at Horicon one year too;

about the outhouse.

MR. GREENWALD: You know, it could have been the same engineer. I don’t know

exactly. But I know that the one up at Sherburne, the local newspaper found out about

how expensive it was and they just put it all over the headlines. You know, the little

towns they don’t have a lot to write about so when something like this comes along it’s

very controversial. The engineer was very embarrassed about it. In the Office we gave

him a hard time about it too because he’d made a big deal. It was an outhouse! But it was

expensive because it was all vandal proof. Supposedly, no one could destroy it. That’s

what he decided to build it up there and the locals found out about how expensive it was.

Basically, that was the only negative that I recall.

MS. NORTON: It probably helped sell some more papers too, when they put that in.

MR. GREENWALD: Certainly! I think it was Zimmerman, Minnesota. It was the

town right outside of Sherburne Refuge.

MS. NORTON: Zimmerman is near Elk River. Sherburne is up by Princeton.

MR. GREENWALD: You know Dorothe; this was a long, long time ago. But those are

the only two negative things that I remember. But I think basically everyone that I ever

talked to, people outside the FWS; hunters and fishermen all thought that it was an

excellent cause, the Refuge System.

MS. NORTON: You bet! So what projects were you involved in?

MR. GREENWALD: Oh lordy, over my eighteen-year career…my first project was up

at Seney. I think we did some dike surveying. From there it was water control

structures, roads, a lot of buildings, modernizing buildings. I did quite a few of those

where we just redid the whole thing; just kept the shell and redid the whole thing. We did

everything.

We reroofed buildings. We designed Refuge headquarters. A lot of times we did those

through AE firms; Architectural engineering firms. Sometimes we did then in-house; you

know, the visitor centers. We did the comfort stations; we did a lot of those. Anything

to do with any of the facilities that the refuges had, and the fish hatcheries. We did a lot

of work at Neoshoe Fish Hatchery, and at Iron River. At Iron River we did their big

enclosed raceways. We worked on the research facilities in Madison, and in Lacrosse. I

did a lot of work down there. I built a large storage building for them.

MS. NORTON: Do you know Dr. Robert Lynn?

MR. GREENWALD: No, but I knew one of the Refuge Managers, or Directors down

there.

MS. NORTON: Dr. Lynn was the one who originally started that fish hatchery and

station in Lacrosse.

MR. GREENWALD: I knew that place. They took me on a tour of it. I know exactly

where that original hatchery was in Lacrosse. Another thing I did was at Detroit Lakes.

They did a lot of native grass work. They wanted a large building so they could dry the

seed, bag it and process the seed. I worked with one of the Assistant Managers. I can’t

think of his name. The building has to be special for this seed operation. We put it

together; I designed it and we built it. It’s still used up there, but it was a specialty

building because of their specialty work.

MS. NORTON: Were there any major issues that you had to deal with?

MR. GREENWALD: The engineers didn’t get so much involved in that. It was mostly

the FWS; Refuge Managers and Directors that dealt with the public on stuff. The

Engineering office basically completed the work that the refuges initiated, whatever they

needed. To be involved in some controversial work…maybe some people in engineering

were, but I wasn’t. Our office would back up Refuge Managers if they ever needed some

technical information. For example, one of the engineers was a specialist in hydraulics. If

there was a controversy on water management then the engineering office would get

involved in it. But personally I never went to any of those real controversial meetings.

MS. NORTON: Did you feel that there were ever any major impediments to your job, or

your career?

MR. GREENWALD: I had a couple personality problems over the course of my career.

I think that happens with everyone. It wasn’t that serious. I think it impeded me from

getting promoted because someone, for some odd reason, didn’t like you or didn’t think

you were doing the job that well. I think it was personality problems. It didn’t cause me

any problems with the job, but it caused me some problems getting promoted. I did get

promoted after a while, but I think it took too long. That’s the only problem.

MS. NORTON: Do you remember who your supervisors were?

MR. GREENWALD: All of them. Ed Stephenson, Dave Ubank, then there was Mr.

Anderson. He just passed away recently. Wally Anderson. Oh Lordy, I am not sure of

all of them now. I’d have to think on that a little bit more.

MS. NORTON: That’s okay, no problem. Were there any individuals that you were

working with that helped shape your career?

MR. GREENWALD: Do you mean like a mentor? No, I don’t really think so. We

engineers were basically just kind of on our own. They gave you the work, and you were

responsible to do it.

MS. NORTON: Law Enforcement is kind of that way a little bit too.

MR. GREENWALD: They expected you to do the work when they paid you for the

grade you were. I wouldn’t say it was feast or famine. But if you did have some

problems you could go to someone. But you were kind of on your own and you were

expected to do your work, and complete your projects.

MS. NORTON: Who were some of the people that you knew outside of the Service?

Did you feel that they would have been able to work for the Service?

MR. GREENWALD: I ran into some people…well, I don’t know maybe there were a

few in my career that I ran into who I told it was a good organization to work for. They

were interested in wildlife. But I don’t remember that many.

MS. NORTON: Do you remember any Presidents, Secretaries of the Interior or

Directors of FWS that you worked under?

MR. GREENWALD: I know it was Carter, Reagan, maybe Ford. Then there was

Greenwalt. People would say that I was his nephew. They would give me a hard time

and ask me if he had hired me. He spelled his name with a T and not a D. The Regional

Director was there, and I can’t remember his name; he preceded Jim Gritman. Then there

was…

MS. NORTON: Was it Hemphill?

MR. GREENWALD: Yeah, exactly. He was Regional Director when I came there in

1977. I spoke with him quite a bit. He was a very personable fellow. When he left I

think it was Jim Gritman. Then there was a lady who became Director who died of brain

cancer. I can’t remember her name.

MS. NORTON: Her first name was Molly. I can’t remember her last name.

MR. GREENWALD: I was here at Minnesota Valley when she was here. I heard her

speak when she first became Director. I just don’t recall all of the names. Harvey

Nelson, I remember him. Then there was the fellow who came after Jim Gritman. He’s

the one who gave me my retirement pin, but you know…

MS. NORTON: Was it Bill Hartman?

MR. GREENWALD: No… it was Bill Hartman’s predecessor. I know Moriarty was

the Deputy. But I can remember his name.

MS. NORTON: I can’t think of it either!

MR. GREENWALD: He was a very personable fellow.

MS. NORTON: If I think of it at two in the morning, I’ll call you and tell you!

MR. GREENWALD: I’ve got pictures…yeah, you’ll know who it is!

MS. NORTON: How do you think the changes in administrations affected the work that

we had to do? As in Democratic versus Republican?

MR. GREENWALD: I really don’t know what administration…I know that when

Reagan became President that many people in the FWS were not happy about that. I

think they were probably more Democratic because I think the Democrats are more

environmentally oriented. That’s just my opinion.

MS. NORTON: Who do you think are some of the individuals were, who you worked

with, that helped shape the Service? Not just is Region 3, but from hearing about them

from throughout the Service?

MR. GREENWALD: I really don’t know about that.

MS. NORTON: I started in 1965 and retired in 1994 and I saw lots of changes.

MR. GREENWALD: Well, in Engineering, our workload really stayed about the same.

We just were busy all of the time. In my whole eighteen year career there wasn’t a year

that we weren’t busy. There was no year when we sat there and twiddled our thumbs.

We had jobs, and more work than we could…. All of the years that I was there. There

was no let up in my career. There were no years where we had to find work. No such

thing as that. As far as I know, every administration gave the engineers enough work on

projects like updating things that were wearing out in the field. In my career it looked like

it was just ditto, ditto, ditto every year.

MS. NORTON: What was the high point of your career?

MR. GREENWALD: Well, when I got promoted to GS-12 naturally. I would say that

when I started working for FWS and I went up to Seney, basically the only bird that I

knew was a robin. And my exposure over my career to all of the wildlife, and the fish

hatcheries and refuges was just a large part. It really had nothing to do with engineering

but the exposure to this wildlife has carried on into today. As you can see, my bird

feeders are out here. I made four birdhouses for my friend. In one of them, we’ve got a

Wren in already who is nesting. Without the FWS, my knowledge of wildlife would be

null. The high point my career was a couple of things. Number one was the diversity

that the engineers had. We did not have the same job all of the time. In my career

engineers can get stuck with that. For example, highway engineers. I worked for the State

of Wisconsin during my junior year. They design roads, roads, roads, and more roads. Or

if you are on bridges, it’s bridges, bridges, bridges, and bridges. In the FWS we did

everything. So the diversity was good. Number two, each engineer did have to do the full

spectrum of his project from the design, and initial survey work to the drawing work, the

specifications, working with the contractors, working with the stations, the Refuge

Managers on exactly what they wanted. We always had to go out and consult with the

Managers and find out what they wanted to use a building for or what its function would

be. I always worked with the Refuge Managers on my projects. For example; I did a

Maintenance building down at Squaw Creek, their main maintenance building. I asked the

Manager what sort of equipment he wanted to put in there. Because over the years

someone had done some work and they had a grader on site. Whoever did the work

hadn’t made the garage doors big enough and they couldn’t get the grader in. So I would

always make sure of what kind of equipment they had when I was designing my

maintenance buildings and what they wanted to do in the building. So the diversity of my

career, of doing all of these different things is what I would say was the high point. Plus

the exposure to the wildlife.

MS. NORTON: To make you feel good Bill, when I started I knew a duck and a goose

both flew. I thought they were both just birds!

MR. GREENWALD: You and I are in the same boat!

MS. NORTON: I can remember Flick Davis used to always say, “Don’t show it to

Dorothe because she’ll just tell you it’s a bird!”.

MR. GREENWALD: And then, one summer my friend who is a schoolteacher and has

off in the summer, she is retired now, and we were going to do some surveying work up at

Sherburne. It was in the summer and it was really nice. I asked the Regional Engineer if

he minded if I took my friend along. I was driving a government vehicle, and I didn’t want

to do anything wrong. He said, “No problem!” So we took my friend up to Sherburne.

While we were doing the survey work, she walked all around. I gave her a map, and she

went over to HQ and got all of the information. She spent all day long on the refuge and

at about 4:30 we decided to come back to the cities. She made a comment when we got

ready to go; and I’ll never forget this, she says, “I cannot believe that they are paying you

for this job!” In other words, she thought that to be out on the refuge with this

wildlife…it was a nice day, we did a lot of surveying when the weather wasn’t so hot.

But this happened to be a really nice day. She just made a comment that it was so much

joy to be out in this quietness. It was dead stone quiet at some of these refuges. There

wasn’t any traffic anywhere close. And to be out with all of the wildlife; she said she

couldn’t believe I was getting paid for this. She thought it was really neat. I’ll never

forget that. In my career there was a lot of people that would come up to me after I had

said that I worked for FWS and tell me that it sounded like an interesting job. And a lot

of people would do that, not just a few! Many people! And it was! With a lot of

people, when I would tell them I was a engineer for the FWS and we would go out to the

refuges and hatcheries, they would make the comment, ‘that’s sounds like a really

interesting job!’

MS. NORTON: A lot of people thought that since I worked for the FWS, they would

say, “Oh, you work for the DNR!”

MR. GREENWALD: Oh yeah, I had that happen many times. People didn’t realize that

the federal government had refuges and fish hatcheries. But I received that comment all of

the time; maybe fifty times in my career about people who thought it was interesting.

Many people would ask me how do you get a job with FWS. I would tell them that they

have to go through the federal system. And a lot of them thought it was a really nice job

to have.

MS. NORTON: Did you have a low point in your career? And if so, what was it?

MR. GREENWALD: Probably not getting promoted as fast as I thought I should. That

was the only problem.

MS. NORTON: Did you ever have a dangerous or frightening experience while you were

out doing work on all of these projects?

MR. GREENWALD: No, I would just say that we had to be cautious driving on some of

the dikes so we wouldn’t drive off of the dikes because of them weren’t in real good

shape. But there was nothing else.

MS. NORTON: I know you’ve probably had more than one of these, but how about a

humorous experience?

MR. GREENWALD: I’ve got tons of those. Oh yeah, I can think of one. I was down at

Necedah. We were doing some work on their refuges headquarters. I knew the people

really well down there. They said they were going to do some controlled burning that

night and said, “Why don’t you stick around?” All we had to do was go back to the

motel so I thought, “I don’t have anything else to do, I’ll see what’s going on around

here.” They went out with all of their equipment and started the controlled burn. Well, it

jumped over the ditch and became uncontrolled. There were a lot of people running

around concerned. They went up to one of the vehicles that had the plough behind it to

plough ditches to control the fire. The battery was dead! No one had checked to see if

the battery was up. That was very embarrassing. I’ll never forget that; that they

couldn’t get the vehicle started right away. That was an incident that happened that was

quite humorous.

MS. NORTON: You said you had another one?

MR. GREENWALD: Yeah, down at Necedah they got a new vehicle they bought for fire

control. It had a big water tank on it. It was a brand new vehicle, they had just bought it.

It was made by Mercedes. It was a truck that was made by Mercedes, the German

manufacturer. I was driving with the one of the Assistant Managers down there. This

was a brand new piece of equipment and he just wasn’t that familiar with it. He was just

learning how to do it. To make a long story short; he put the vehicle in first gear and it

went backwards. I wanted to know how this happened. It turned out that the diesel

engine somehow started running backwards. Diesel engines can run backwards. The

exhaust was coming out of the air intake and I just thought it was hilarious that he put

this thing in first gear and the thing went backwards. He had no idea what was causing

this. There were probably a lot of other humorous things that happened but those are the

only two that I can remember right now.

MS. NORTON: Sometimes a little humor in your job made it a little more interesting too

don’t you think?

MR. GREENWALD: Oh yeah!

MS. NORTON: What would you like to tell others about your career; like your family

or friends or people who don’t work for FWS? You mentioned before how a lot of them

said, “wow, what a good job!”

MR. GREENWALD: It was very fulfilling. I can’t think of the word I want to use. But

by being exposed to the wildlife, it was rewarding. Rewarding, that’s the word I want to

use. It was a very rewarding career. As a matter of fact, out of all of the things that I did

after I graduated from college as an engineer, it was the most rewarding job that I ever had

because of the variety in engineering and the variety of wildlife. There was also the

variety in all of the people that we had to meet on the refuge staffs. We had to work with

FWS people; the biologists. Working with all of these very well educated people, I was

very impressed with people in the Regional Office and out in the field. The level of

professionalism was extremely high as far as I was concerned.

MS. NORTON: Did you notice any changes in the Service as far as in the personnel or in

the work environment during your career?

MR. GREENWALD: No, I noticed a difference in the kinds of Christmas parties we had,

with difference Directors, but basically, I didn’t notice any. Maybe the engineers weren’t

exposed that much to the policies.

MS. NORTON: Where do you see the Service heading in the next decades? How do you

feel about the FWS future?

MR. GREENWALD: I have no negative feelings about the future for the FWS at all! I

don’t know why there would be, unless there was a national catastrophe where all of the

money went into defense. But I don’t see why the government or the people would want

to decrease the functions of the FWS because of our environment. This is the best

country in the whole world in terms of taking care of their own resources. What other

country in the world has refuges like ours? We are interested in taking care of our land

probably more so than any other country in the world. So unless there is a national

catastrophe like World War III, I don’t see why there would be any decrease in the

functions of the Service. I think the cause is an admirable cause. In fact, in many agencies

of the government, it’s considered one of the more admirable causes.

MS. NORTON: Who else do you feel we should interview? I know you mentioned Bill

Miller, and I will get in touch with him. Is there anybody else?

MR. GREENWALD: Well, these people who had a long career with FWS. Bill Miller

had a long career. Paul Hacquis had a long career. We’re talking many, many years.

They all worked down at the Bussard Building. I don’t even know anything about that

but all of those people came up through there before me.

MS. NORTON: We’re working on them, trying to get as many as we can.

MR. GREENWALD: Right, but these people spent a big chunk of their life and they

contributed a lot to the FWS because they worked for them for so long.

MS. NORTON: Well thanks Bill, for your time. I appreciate it. This will be sent in to

Washington to be transcribed.

MR. GREENWALD: Did you want to talk about the volunteer work that I’ve done at

Minnesota Valley since I’ve retired?

MS. NORTON: You can if you’d like, yes.

MR. GREENWALD: Since I retired in 1985 I have volunteered about 850 hours for

Minnesota Valley basically doing a lot of their engineering work. The last work I did was

last winter. It’s a total of 850 hours since 1995. A lot of their little engineering projects

like a kiosk that I designed. Some of the work that the Regional engineering office just

couldn’t handle since they were just to busy.

MS. NORTON: That’s good. Who is the Manager there now?

MR. GREENWALD: Rick Shultz. He’s been there since I started volunteering in 1995.

He’s still there. And I am kind of proud of that volunteer work.

MS. NORTON: One thing I find about keeping busy after you are retired is that you

don’t get old as fast as some of the others.

MR. GREENWALD: Exactly.

MS. NORTON: Well, thank you very much Bill!

MR. GREENWALD: Okay, you’re welcome!